[Af_List] Andrew's essay on the Shocking Pinks

[Tim Baird]

 >>Andrew, I just couldn't resist responding to your 'essay' back to me 
(some points of which that we actually agree on BTW)..

You threw down the gauntlet yesterday with this (my original comments in 
blue):


> > This is totally newsworthy, Nick H. is a talented dude who actually
> > deserves the hype. This ain't the first time he's been reviewed
> > positively by Pitchfork, check the review for the Shocking Pinks debut
> > 2004 release 'Dance The Dance Electric' on Chch label Pinacolada Records
> > which got 8.2 out of 10:
> > http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/record_review/22299-dance-the-dance-electric
>   

Ironically enough there is a sentence in this review that pretty much
reflects my view of the shocking pinks output thusfar:  "certainly not
a vast departure from the cliches being propagated by present-day
death-disco revivalists".  Yep, could agree more.

*Tim :>>Fair enough, that's how you feel on this one but....*

> > (Franz
> > Ferdinand's debut was review same week on Pitchfork and got 7.5. out of
> > 10)
>   

Franz Ferdinand get 7.5 out of 10 on pitchfork?  I don't know what
that tells you, but it certainly tells me that me and pitchforks world
views are poles apart...

*Tim: >>>Fair enough, didn't think you'd agree you'd agree with me here 
but....*

> > Anyway, the main point here is I think we should celebrate what's
> > happened for the Shocking Pinks as it could be really beneficial to
> > other like minded local artists in the NZ scene instead of being bitter
> > jealous motherfuckers.
>   

Tim, glad to see you have no problem with calling someone you've never
met a motherfucker because they have a different opinion than you do
about a particular artist.  We definitely need more of that kind of
thing on this planet.  It reflects well on you, really, it does.

Tim :>>>>Awesome, Andrew you can call me a c#@t as well if you want, I 
don't care!'Bitter jealous motherfuckers' as I meant  here was a 
reference to all those who 'tall poppy syndrome' an NZ artist when they 
have any degree of success overseas.Personally I can't stand that shit.
O.K?

Character assassination aside, why the jingoistic freak out?  Why
should we celebrate the success of mediocre rehashes just because
they're local and you feel there may be some 'beneficial' trickle down
effect?  Are we really such a insecure nation that calling a spade a
spade is seen as cultural treachery?  Are we really so desperate for
attention from 'the big boys' overseas that we'll pat allcomers on the
back regardless of what we believe?  All I'm saying is that theres
nothing special about what the shocking pinks are doing, its been done
before, done better and whats more has been done not as a conscious
'genre-exercise'  like the current crop of third generation
'dancepunk' tightpants haircut-core bands are doing it as, but as
ACTUAL MUSIC.  Bands like LCD, The Rapture, !!! etc. - all this shit,
is a set of currently popular musical references and nothing else.
Strip it back to the bone and see what you find.  My guess is nothing
whatsoever.  Please feel free to mark my words when I say that all
this shit will horribly dated in 20, nay 10, nay 5 years.  History
will not smile kindly on it (but it will continue to smile kindly on
the bands they ripped off).

*Tim :>>>> Andrew!!! I don't just like music because it's from NZ, I 
fucking hate the Black Seeds et al.
But hell, I have to say if you got a cheque from James Murphy at DFA 
encouraging you to go for it as an artist that you'd probably say 'hell 
yeah' and think about that Timeshare in Miami you always wanted.
And then if you had any beans about you, you might say '..and here's all 
this other good shit from back home..' and point types like Mr. Murphy 
in the direction of some good upcoming NZ bands....think 'flow-on 
effect'....

I know the Pinks aren't totally original, but they are a great blend of 
a lot of influences.And that's where their real appeal lies. Also I 
think a lot of this 'stuff' will sound fine in 20+ years,
all music is influenced by something!!!!! Nothing is totally original, 
Joy Division ripped off Neu!,etc etc etc....And that all sounds great!


I wish the shocking pinks all the best really, but come on check out
the songs at:  http://www.myspace.com/shockingpinks  and tell me
honestly that the majority of people on this list would even give it
the time of day if it wasn't local.  I just played the tracks from
this site on my computer at work and asked the 60 year old account who
sits across from me what she thought of it.  "Not so special" she
said, "Like something you might hear in an elevator".  I wish them all
the best, but certainly don't see why I should pat a band on the back
for 'happening' to have fallen in line with current indie trends.
They don't even NEED people like me to pat them on the back for that -
that's what pitchformedia is for.

Tim: >>>Interesting trying out the 60 plus demographic with the Shocking 
Pinks. Target audience for sure!I played them to my Dad who is 70 and he 
hated it to. I think he'd prefer they went in more of a 'boy band' 
direction.Proven fact: Accountants hate the Shocking Pinks.

Since when has a band being from New Zealand mean you deserve
automatic unqualified support from New Zealanders?  Since when does
not supporting a particular local band because you are not convinced
of the quality and longevity of their output make you a 'bitter
jealous motherfucker'?  Sorry but I don't have these kind of
insecurities - NZ has been producing fucking unbelievable music for
decades now, I know it and don't need to be told it by some
indie-hacks in the US, major media picking up on some of the weaker
strains of our music doesn't raise my pulse one little bit.  We have
this habit of sounding so need and desperate any time we get some
international attention in NZ - and why should we?  Xpressway, Flying
Nun, Corpus Hermeticum, Cpsip, Psuedo Arcana etc.  Lilburn even - we
have an enviable music history yet sometimes I feel like we act like
musical peasants begging for bread, like our music has no real value
until someone in overseasland waves their money wand.  Its a real
shame.

Tim: >>>'NZ has been producing fucking unbelievable music for
decades now' - agreed. Musical peasants we are not, but recognition from 
overseas I think is great.I'm a bit sick of really good music being kept 
the 'best kept secret' and 'exclusive', I've possibly got a more 
commercially orientated viewpoint than you and that's fine.We are not in 
'..need or desperate..'by any means, but yeah, let's share this good 
shit with people worldwide instead of keeping it to ourselves!!


The shocking pinks don't annoy me per se  - its with the mechanisms
that generate 'indie' hype for 20-somethings with too much disposable
income to feel clever about when in fact they are being sold the
emperors new clothes.  Same old story.  There was a letter from Gary
Higgins in last months wire where he complained about (let me
paraphrase here) 'the tendency in the post po-mo world to shit shine
up turds until they shine like gold'.  I couldn't agree more.

Tim: >>> You hate the hype, fair enough.But if it's gonna make people 
take notice, sometimes you need it.I mean, 'Wire' magazine is much a 
hype tool of the industry as Pitchfork. But yes, I commend you for a 
good 'round two' and injecting some much needed colour into a list that 
has all gotten a little bit '..come along and listen to my mate, he's 
got half an oboe sticking out his arse and it's mic'd up. $5 entry...' 
of late in my opinion.

DEBATE IS GOOD!!!

Tim.